New to the forum?

Sign Up Here!

Already a member?
Please login below.

Forgot your password?
Need Help?  
healthcare aka Obamacare
25 Replies
jrzgirl - March 19

if this bill passes, we are all up a creek, we will pay dearly with increased pain and $$$$$ I pray it dies


Noca - March 19

You guys need public healthcare, not some forced private insurance garbage. Private insurers just turn away anyone who is actually ill, while public healthcare doesn't turn away anyone, especially the ill.

Living in a society without public healthcare is barbaric IMO. Denying the sick(who most likely are poor cause they can't work) healthcare because they don't have money is absurd.

People should all pay into taxes which supplies healthcare. We shouldnt be given a choice whether or not to pay taxes for healthcare.

If you are given a choice, then the one person who doesnt pay for it is at a financial advantage to the person who does pay for it, forcing more people to NOT pay for it. This continues until one of the people not paying for it gets unlucky, and gets ill, and thus cant receive healthcare cause they haven't paid for it.


axxie - March 20

I quite disagree with you jrgirl, I've lived in the US and lived in Canada, Britain and Sweeden.

I much prefer a public healthcare, that way you cannot be turned down. Everyone pays, everyne gets treated end of story.

The day jrgirl you lose your job, or get cancer is the day your private insurance will drop you like a hot potato, then what will you do.

The doctors will still get paid for every visit and you won't have to make a copay except on your drub benefit.

YOu need a new heart you get put on a list, you get the best of the doctors, trust me greed is part of the private insurances and doctors who are greedy.

There are no shortages of doctors, and there no shortage of treatments to help you heal. Actually public healthcare are more about saving your health then most doctors in the private health care symptoms.

Just don't anticipate for free plastic surgeries that is still very much private.

I'm glad that Obama makes you all realize in the States that you need public healthcare.


Noca - March 21

Axxie I think the US isnt really offering public health care, they are forcing everyone to buy private health care, which I guess they can be denied treatment from still. At least thats my understanding.


bwelladjusted - March 21

Frankly, axxie, I don't think Obama has made us realize we need public healthcare. He and the Democrats have just decided we'll have it whether we want it or not. Right now almost 2/3 of the people in America oppose it, and 38 states are prepared to take it to the Supreme court to challenge it. I certainly don't want to see poor people suffering and unable to receive treatment. In fact, I am from a poor family who cannot afford insurance and I cannot get private insurance due to my fibro. I think all Americans are in favor of some insurance reform, but socialism is not the answer. Americans really are very generous to good causes. We have many great nonprofit organizations like Samaritan's Purse that help provide free healthcare to 3rd world countries, and I have no doubt that people would be just as generous to provide healthcare for poor people in our own country. I know just in my own local area there are several doctors that donate their time giving free healthcare and medicine to those in need in the community.
Healthcare is important, and I'm sure there are plenty of reasonable steps that can be taken to improve it, but government healthcare is not the answer. Although right now, it looks like we have some long,hard legal fights ahead of us.


Noca - March 21

"I think all Americans are in favor of some insurance reform, but socialism is not the answer."

I don't understand whats wrong with socialism when it comes to healthcare, what part exactly are Americans opposed to? Government healthcare seems to be the answer in the rest of the 1st world countries, why is America any different?


axxie - March 22

Medicine for profit is self-destructing in this country. Billions in profits are flowing to the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and HMOs. Hospitals are being consolidated into large corporations. CEOs are raking in ever-larger salaries. But tens of millions of workers and poor people have no health coverage or inadequate coverage, and tens of millions more worry about losing their coverage. Every year more companies cut back on health insurance for their workers, and even workers who still have insurance find they have to pay higher premiums and co-pays while receiving less coverage. Medical emergencies bankrupt many people, even those with costly private insurance, as the insurance companies make up one pretext or another to cancel coverage when it comes time to pay for expensive treatment. Meanwhile even the hospital system itself is in trouble, with hospitals and emergency rooms closing around the country.


axxie - March 22

Universal health coverage exists in various forms in Canada, England, Cuba, etc. , and to accomplish this, all these systems infringe to this or that extent on medicine for profit. They all replace private insurance, at least for basic care, thus eliminating one aspect of medicine for profit. In Canada, that's the only marketplace aspect of medicine that is eliminated. In some European countries and Cuba, the hospitals and clinics are nationalized and doctors may be salaried employees of the state. In those systems, a bit more of the marketplace is pushed out of health care. In some other countries with universal coverage, such as France and Germany, there is a hybrid system of health care, this is where the US should come into. Most of Canada is at a point of adopting this scenario or at least you will see the Federal and Provincial Government


firomama - March 22

to be honest i dont pretend to understand all of this stuff. i do get the concept of socialized verses private. i personally, maybe even selfishly want everyone to have the same ins. rich, poor, middle class, ect. the same treatment, dr's. ect.
Obviously i have FMS, along w/ osteoarthirtis, bad discs. and im denied ins. no matter what i do. not that a personal, private ins is to costly, they will NOT cover me. we actually make to much to qualify for the states help and cant get coverage through hubbys work. so what do we do. i never thought medicine should be about profit, but helping fellow humans be healthy. i am by no means religious but i believe thats what GOD or Higher Power wanted from us. im sure there are some here who greatly disagree. all i know is i along w/ everyone else should have access to medical care regardless-


lacie - March 22

While Obama's plan may not be PERFECT, I think that everyone with fibromyalgia in the United States needs the pre-existing condition clause that is contained. Now that it has passed people like us will have subsidized healthcare, meaning that even if private carriers jack up rates due to our conditions, we will not have to pay as much. I can breathe a sigh of relief finally. I have imagined many situations in which I would have needed to move to a country with universal healthcare just to get the care I DESERVE (not just need).


bwelladjusted - March 22

Noca, the biggest reason I don't like the idea of socialism in the area of healthcare is that once it starts there, it will spread. Socialist countries didn't become that way overnight, it's a slow, sometimes very subtle path. It starts as something that seems very positive, but the more power the government has, the less freedom the people have. America was founded on the ideas of freedom of the people and, yes, capitalism. Capitalism has become a dirty word these days, synonymous with greed. But greedy people have always existed, and always will, with or without capitalism. As a Christian, I'm 100% for people helping each other, and for the wealthy being generous to help the poor. To whom much is given, much is expected. Do I think those who have been greatly blessed have a moral obligation to help the less fortunate? Absolutely. But there's a difference between a moral obligation, and legal one. You can't legislate morality. Especially since our government officials have shown themselves to be so corrupt, that I would hardly trust them with my health and wellbeing. As I said, there have to be some regulations and reform to keep huge industries from spiraling out of control. But the government can't keep infringing on our freedom.
Another reason I'm not in favor of the healthcare bill (among others)is that we quite honestly can't afford it. Our country is already so far in debt we'll never get out. Even if the people wanted it, we don't have the money to pay for it. This could bankrupt our country. There are many things in my personal budget that I want, even NEED, but if the money isn't there, it isn't there. No amount of wanting can make the money appear.
Everyone has a different opinion on this, and I respect that. I can tell that many people on this post have the best motives at heart. But I'm still praying that this decision can be undone before it's too late. I love my country a lot, and I don't want to see it lose the very ideals and freedoms it was founded on.


lacie - March 22

Bwelladjusted, if you read further on obama's plan the deficit is actually reduced through this healthcare plan. The nytimes had an article that explained this better that ran yesterday.

Also I suggest everyone actually study socialism before passing judgment and deeming it a terrible "communist" policy. As a political science major I can tell you that socialism is not as radical as many politicians make it out to be. It's turned into a cry wolf tactic to call policies "socialist" "communist" or "unpatriotic" in order to make the masses who generally don't educate themselves on the actual bills past media propaganda disagree with the opposition.


lacie - March 22

Also, I would like to ask bwelladjusted where her statistics come from. I have been reading statistics from Gallup poll, a reputable scientific poll. People need to be wary of accepting random statistics without questioning if the poll was biased, scientific, or accurate. Gallup polls have stated that 48% of Americans oppose the healthcare bill, which is significantly lower than your 2/3 number. (these can easily be found by going to and clicking healthcare) This poll was taken March 9, 2010.

Also, have you considered at all the motives of private insurance companies? They are in business to make money, not to make you well. It's the same deal as drug companies. If they make you better, then they are not making a profit. A public option makes sense when you consider the fact that it's much more financially viable for the government to keep you alive. As a living citizen you are aiding the economy through taxes and spending. Private insurance companies only profit off of your death. Your congresspeople are also in the pockets of big business, insurance, and drug companies.

There is also the issue of capitalism you brought up. The Obama plan is a mixture of public and private option. In essence this mix would INCREASE and BETTER capitalism, not kill it. By having a subsidized public option there is more incentive for competition for the private companies. Competition is the basis for capitalism. The public option forces private companies to offer a better scope of care for less money in order to compete with public options.


Noca - March 22

"Noca, the biggest reason I don't like the idea of socialism in the area of healthcare is that once it starts there, it will spread"

Yeah I can see how it has happened to Canada, France, UK, Sweeden and so on, how they all became communists. Actually those are all free 1st world countries with human rights and freedom for all.

The fear of becoming a communist or socialist country is an irrational fear.

Everytime a government run organization here in Canada has become privatized, the quality of the service goes down and the cost goes up, EVERY single time.


Canada17 - March 24

I'm on the fence on this one. I think it is important that everyone, not just the wealthy, has access to basic health care.

But, what are my taxes paying for here in Canada? I had a referral put into my local pain clinic at the hospital and they wrote back that the wait was 5 years! I can't find a family doctor because they all went south where the money is, I doubt they'll come back now. Even the ones who are accepting new patients have restrictions on where those patients can come from. If you live outside their "territory" they can't accept you, even if their office is empty! And that's a government rule.

But, even though I have to wait eons for an appointment, at least my OHIP card gets me in for free.


axxie - March 29

Public Healthcare, no matter how you see it, is not social but is in mere fact first rate service to all. Canada, Sweeden and other countries who have adopted public healthcare have great services. The problem with the services is, that every Province mans it, therefore that is where you get the problem of not finding doctors. Don't forget doctors did go south, but many have grown too old to practice and many don't qualify. All to the Federal Government who mans how many are elegible to study to be a doctor. So the problem really is with the Federal Government with their big tink tanks, who didn't see babyboomers needing healthcare.

Trust me when I say if you get at least primary care as a reform in the US, it's much more then many poeple have. Sure many work and they contribute into their pool of healthcare services, the problem is, what happens when you loose your job, or went back to school or moved, then no healthcare, or you have to pay big amount of moneys to go to a pool holding. The primary will give everyone the right to go see the doctor and be treated fairly.

BTW: Did you know that doctors who went south, are not primary doctors but specialized doctors. Primary doctors receive the same amount of money per person either in Ontario or in Texas. That's a true fact.

Remeber, social is not socialism. The US or for that matter Canada or Sweeden etc. will never become socialism.


iliveinpain - March 29

I've been away for awhile. wow, when did we get so political here??



You must log in to reply.

Are you New to the forum? Sign Up Here! Already a member? Please login below.

Forgot your password?
Need Help?
Ask a Question